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Friday, March 11, 2011

Ten Alleged Contradictions in the Bible

 

Introduction

A fellow blogger, Kristenmomof3, has posted to one of my recent blogs two lists that she states are “contradictions” she has found in the content of the original manuscripts of the Holy Scriptures, the Bible. I am uncertain what additional sources she may have used to glean these allegations. Presumably these allegations were presented as open challenges to the readers of His Master‘s Voice. The challenge was essentially to disprove these “contradictions” or acknowledge that the Bible “contradicts” itself. I have transferred her allegations just as she posted them on my blog comments page and combined the two lists into one below.

Though I lack the time needed to offer up a lengthy rebuttal against each alleged contradiction, I can offer the following short refutations. Of course other Christian Bible study websites can provide more detailed explanations that adequately demonstrate that these allegations are not genuine contradictions at all. If you need more information, please search out and reference those online resources.

 

Allegations of Contradictions and Answers to Those Allegations

Allegation 1

John's first encounter with Jesus was while both of them were still in their mothers' wombs, at which time John, apparently recognizing his Saviour, leaped for joy (Luke 1:44). Much later, while John is baptizing, he refers to Jesus as "the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world", and "the Son of God" (John 1:29,36). Later still, John is thrown in prison from which he does not return alive. John's definite knowledge of Jesus as the son of God and saviour of the world is explicitly contradicted by Luke 7:18-23 in which the imprisoned John sends two of his disciples to ask Jesus, "Are you the one who is coming, or do we look for someone else?"

Answer 1: John the Baptist

I gave more complete details in the comments section of my previous blog. John, having experienced a momentary episode of doubt while in prison, does not disqualify him as a prophet, and certainly does not indicate that the Bible has contradictions in it.

 

Allegation 2

According to Matthew 26:15, the chief priests "weighed out thirty pieces of silver" to give to Judas. There are two things wrong with this:
a. There were no "pieces of silver" used as currency in Jesus' time - they had gone out of circulation about 300 years before.
b. In Jesus' time, minted coins were used - currency was not "weighed out."
By using phrases that made sense in Zechariah's time but not in Jesus' time

Answer 2: Silver Coins During the 1st Century

Silver coins had actually been minted by Rome for two centuries before Christ lived and used them for three centuries after. Due to forgery and tampering, coins could still be weighed to validate their authenticity, even in the 1st Century, so the idiomatic expression, “weigh out the silver“ also meant “count out the silver coins” at that time (even today we use hold-over phrases in our language in a similar way; no one has dial telephones anymore, but we often still say “dial that number“ when we mean “punch in that number“). Again, the allegation itself was a misstatement of real history, for silver coins were very much in common use in Palestine in the 1st Century.

 

Allegation 3
How did Judas die?
a. In Matthew 27:5 Judas hangs himself.
b. In Acts 1:18 he bursts open and his insides spill out.
c. According to the apostle Paul, neither of the above is true. Paul says Jesus appeared to "the twelve" after his resurrection. Mark 14:20 makes it clear that Judas was one of the twelve.
In Matthew 19:28, Jesus tells the twelve disciples, including Judas, that when Jesus rules from his throne, they will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Answer 3: Judas Died by Hanging and by Bursting

The answer can actually be discerned in the allegation. Something caused Judas to fall and subsequently resulted in him bursting open. This was likely not a controlled fall, such as in a professional gallows hanging, where the drop would only be one to six feet straight down. As happens even today, a crude amateur hanging-suicide in which a person violently jumps from a tree branch, can result in broken necks, broken ropes, broken branches, and a broken and torn body which releases its internal organs. Something did cause Judas to fall, and that was his violent suicide-by-hanging.

Note: an additional objection was raised about the twelve thrones for the twelve apostles. “Twelve” had become a group title for the apostles, not merely a repetitious or redundant group count. Acts 1 describes how Judas was eventually replaced by Matthias to place twelve members in the group called “Twelve.” Paul also later became an apostle, but was never one of the “Twelve.”

 

Allegation 4
How did the Field of Blood get its name?
a. Matthew says because it was purchased with blood money (Matthew 27:6-8).
b. Acts says because of the bloody mess caused by Judas' bursting open (Acts 1:18-19).

Answer 4: Matthew and Acts Disagree on The Field of Blood

This objection is based on a careless reading of Acts 1:18-19. Acts 1 does not say the field was called bloody because Judas died there, but it was called bloody because “the field was acquired by the price [blood money] of his wickedness [the betrayal of innocent blood].” In fact, Acts 1 does not say where Judas died, and to this day we do not know.

 

Allegation 5

Where was Jesus taken immediately after his arrest?
a. Matthew, Mark and Luke say that Jesus was taken directly to the high priest (Matthew 26:57, Mark 14:53 and Luke 22:54).
b. John says that Jesus was taken first to Annas, the father-in-law of the high priest (John 18:13) who, after an indeterminate period of time, sent Jesus to the high priest (John 18:24).

Answer 5: Matthew, Mark, and Luke Disagree With John After His Arrest

This allegation is created by surreptitiously insinuating a word into all three gospel accounts that is not actually there, “directly.” Matthew, Mark, and Luke simply state that Jesus was taken to Caiaphas after His arrest, not “directly“ after His arrest. Whether any other stops were made or not was not important for them to write about. John, on the other hand, contains 95% new material not found in the other gospels. He liked to include details the others did not think worth mentioning, so he mentioned that they went to Annas’ house first. Why? To set the scene where Peter began his denial of Jesus in the courtyard of Annas’ house. Peter concluded his three-times denial after they all went to Caiaphas’ courtyard. John saw this as an important element of the story while the other three simply saw fit to note the short version: that Peter ultimately did deny Jesus.

 

Allegation 6
There are several passages in the gospels where Jesus says he will return in the disciples' lifetime (Mark 13:30, Matthew 10:23, 16:28, 24:34, Luke 21:32, etc.).

Answer 6: Jesus Lied by Saying He Would Return in One Generation

This is a matter of uninformed reading and poor interpretation of Scripture. Mark 13:30 and Matthew 24:34 and Luke 21:32: the “generation” that sees Jesus return in the clouds with power will be the generation that also lives to see “the gathering of the elect” (v. 27), “the powers of the heavens shaken,” or, as other Christians think, “the end of heaven and earth” (v. 31). I favor the understanding that the generation which sees Jesus return is the one that also lives to see “the gathering of the elect.” Matthew 10:23: Jesus tells his disciples that they will never stop being persecuted and being driven out of every city (in Israel and in all the earth) until He returns. Matthew 16:28: this is a partially fulfilled prophecy; some standing there did see Jesus come in glory in the Transfiguration (see Matthew 17:1-13) making the prophecy true, but it is not yet complete as Jesus will also come again to judge His enemies (incomplete prophecies are not “contradictions”).

 

Jesus also told many parables about being patient and waiting a long time while the master of the house, Himself, is away. Moreover, Jesus instructed His disciples to go throughout the earth with the message, to persevere until the end, and that no one, not even He, knows when that end will occur. Is it really unusual that humans think God ought to work more quickly and that God ought not be so patient?

 

Allegation 7
Jesus' last words
MAT 27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."
LUK 23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
JOH 19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

Answer 7: Different Gospels Record Partial Segments of Jesus’ Last Words

His death likely took many agonizing hours. That each gospel records only tiny fragments of the many things Jesus must have said during that lengthy time is not even close to a meaningful definition of “contradiction.“ It might be called “editing,” or “redacting,” or “abridging” the dialogue of that day, but in no sense is it evidence of contradiction.

 

Allegation 8
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (EXO 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (EXO 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (GEN 32:30)

God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (JOH 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (EXO 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1TIM 6:16)

Answer 8: Idioms and Euphemisms for “Seeing” God

Yes, God talked with Moses like one would talk with a human friend with whom he is with face-to-face; and yes, God passed by Moses but prevented Moses from actually seeing His glory. The lengthy accounts of these experiences in the Bible go out of their way to demonstrate that Moses never saw “the face of God,“ that is, God in His full glory, which would have been fatal. Talking with God conversationally is not the same as standing in His literal visible presence in Heaven itself. Moses never went to Heaven and God never left Heaven, Jesus did. If we are to assume every helpful euphemism or idiom is a contradiction then there is no point in speaking in the English language, for it too is filled with euphemisms and idioms.

 

Allegation 9
"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2KI 2:11)
"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, ... the Son of Man." (JOH 3:13)

Answer 9: Elijah Went Into Heaven, But Jesus Said No One Ever Did

This is an example of sloppy modernistic artificially “rigid” and out-of-context reading of the text. Jesus obviously was addressing those standing around Him when He said, “I am the only living human standing here who both ascended into and descended out of heaven, so why don’t you listen Me and believe what I am saying?” (loose paraphrase of John 3:13 is mine). Jesus actually acknowledged that many individuals were alive in Heaven with God, but only He comes and goes by His own will. More than that, Jesus was claiming to be the very “son” literally mentioned in Proverbs 30:4, “Who has ascended into heaven and descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has wrapped the waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name or His son's name? Surely you know!” (Proverbs 30:4)

 

Allegation 10
How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
2KI 8:26 22
2CH 22:2 42

Answer 10: How Old Was Ahaziah When He Ruled?

Yes!!!! An actual “contradiction” has been found! Sort of. Some Hebrew manuscripts do have age 42 listed instead of age 22 in 2 Chronicles 22:2, though an age of 42 would have been a physical impossibility. His father died at the age of 40. A son cannot be 2 years older than his father. So how did modern copies of the text end up saying Ahaziah was 42 when the originals had to have said 22? The most likely explanation is that a modern scribe miscopied that number from a more correct but nearly exhausted original. Why say “modern scribe”? Because copies of the Septuagint (crafted from the 2nd Century BCE through 3rd Century AD) do not have the age 42 error, indicating the copyist error was introduced much later in history, long after the Septuagint was translated into Greek from the Hebrew. Christians are not so naïve as to think transcription or copy errors were not introduced into some copies of biblical texts. The key is to find them by comparing them to better copies and note them as copy errors which are called “variants.”

Conclusion

As I have said elsewhere in previous such discussions, these kinds of lists that allege that there are contradictions in the original manuscripts of the Bible are as old as is atheism itself. Most of these allegations arise from misunderstandings, such as not being able to interpret the archaic English of the KJV--solution, use a trusted modern English version such as the NIV or the NASB (not to be confused with the spurious NAB). Or reading into passages words or concepts that are not actually there--solution, read the text in context and as it was actually written. Or imposing absurdly rigid readings on dialogues that were meant to be taken as natural speech--solution, read figures of speech in the same normal way we employ them today.

Essentially, most of these lists treat the translated Bibles in tortured ways no one would ever treat other historical texts or narratives. When a modern history book states that the Nazis rounded up all the Jews from a given town we do not irrationally assume that because the word “all” was used that not even one soul successfully hid or escaped. In fact, we assume that the word “all” in natural English usage generally means “almost all” or “the greatest reasonable number” or “a very great amount.” The Bible was written in natural languages and needs to be read in that same light.

When it is read and understood as ordinary language that uses euphemisms and idioms, or poetry and narrative, the Bible does in fact have immense consistency. The alleged contradictions of skeptics and atheists are rarely indicative of any kind of genuine problem in the original manuscripts. Such accusations more usually originate from ignorance of the historical-contextual-literary hermeneutic interpretive process and from extreme biases than from faithful study of the texts themselves.

God’s Word simply will not pass away and will outlive the planet earth. It is the very Word of Christ.

 

 Posted 3/11/2011 11:45 PM - 483 Views - 12 eProps - 16 comments

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Excellent answers!
Posted 3/12/2011 12:10 AM by eoalyssa - recommend - reply

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I appreciate the time you have taken to refute these claims of contradictions in the scriptures.   There must be many who would love to have some sort of basis for their unbelief, but I can't think why so-called believers would want to nitpick in this way.  As I said, I'm glad for people who try to help in cases where believers are shaken by these claims.   God is being attacked, criticized, challenged constantly, yet He never doubts Himself.  Neither should we doubt Him.  God is worth of all honor and glory from all creation - including all men.  No man is worthy of anything but death from God, yet He has given us His Son so that we might be saved.
Posted 3/12/2011 12:20 AM by quest4god@revelife Xanga Premium Member - recommend - reply

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You insist that my response had too many points to respond to a single one, while writing blog-length responses to other people.

Classy.

@eoalyssa - 

Not really. The coin thing had already been pointed out, and his answers to 3 and 4 are just lying about scripture. The passage he claims doesn't say where jesus died is:

"With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood."

This directly contradicts the other accounts, which are riddled with contradictions. In one version he throws away the pieces of silver, runs off and hangs himself, then after his death the priests feel guilty about taking blood money into their coffers, so they use it to buy a potter's field (graveyard for the poor or unknown), and because it was bought with the "price of blood" it is called "field of blood". In the second version judas goes to the temple, has words with the priests, leaves with the money, and uses it to buy a potter's field, then falls and his bowels gush out, and that land is therefore known as field of blood. These are wildly different versions of the story, both of which seem to be deliberate attempts to fit the story of jesus' blood money around prophecy (that it would be used to buy a potter's field). He doesn't deal with this, he just pretends there is no contradiction and hopes you won't actually look it up.

Please look this stuff up.
Posted 3/12/2011 11:29 AM by agnophilo Xanga True Member - recommend - reply

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Number six is about scripture that lists a bunch of apocolyptic things that never happened and caps it off with "Verily I say unto you not one generation shall pass before all these things be revealed". Many passages in scripture make clear that the end of the world would happen very soon and that the apostles were living in the "last days". Again you just twist these passages. You will never accept that they mean anything other than what you'd like them to mean. If there are two ways to interpret a passage and one is a problem for your faith, you automatically reject it in favor of the other one, even if the other interpretation is a ridiculous stretch.
Posted 3/12/2011 11:34 AM by agnophilo Xanga True Member - recommend - reply

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I knew you would do a good job.   
Posted 3/12/2011 12:13 PM by deniseinindy - recommend - reply

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In a nutshell, any apparent contradiction in revealed scripture stems from either the verse being figurative, rather than literal, in meaning, or from the reader's interpretation diverging from the Messenger's intent.
Posted 3/12/2011 12:15 PM by cyberbear - recommend - reply

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Dear friend agnophilo,


I see you are concerned about accuracy regarding the English translation of Acts 1:18. Yet, oddly, you seem to have quoted the NIV which does not mirror the Greek original in this passage quite as consistently as do many other English translations. The NIV (and some inaccurate paraphrase renderings) add the idea that Judas died “there,” in the field.


I have looked up the original Greek text, and this idea of where Judas died is utterly absent in the original language. The fact that the NIV adds in concepts not present in the original Greek is why it is sometimes not permitted to be used in Christian seminary hermeneutics courses.


Those English translations that are considered more faithful to the Greek read as follows:


KJV “Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.” (Acts 1:18)


NASB “(Now this man acquired a field with the price of his wickedness, and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his intestines gushed out.” (Acts 1:18)


ASV “(Now this man obtained a field with the reward of his iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.” (Acts 1:18)


ESV “(Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.” (Acts 1:18)


Note: for those Christians who are NIV fans, in general I feel it is a fine and useful translation to read from, but for serious study I would recommend the NASB and, when convenient, also learning Koine Greek.


It is curious that you, agnophilo, state that there are multiple “other accounts” about Judas returning the silver coins, beside Matthew 27:1-9, which are “riddled with contradictions.” Any Bible student will inform you that you are incorrect; there is only one account of Judas taking back the money to the sanctuary or his money buying a field (i.e. Matthew 27:1-9). As we already discussed Acts 1:18 is another reference to that event, but it does not recount the events of that night.


Rather Acts 1:18 uses similes, ironies, and euphemisms to describe Judas’ “wickedness” as the price paid (instead of silver) for “his” field which he never actually owned. It is reminiscent of saying, “Lincoln built his monument in D.C. out of the price of his own worth and integrity.” Lincoln never actually bought or owned the monument, but it was dedicated to him because of what he had done. It would be absurd to imply that the epitaph was intended to tell the literal story of how the monument was financially funded. It was just an epitaph, a poem honoring the man. In like manner, Acts 1:18 is Judas’ sad epitaph, though in this case it is a poem dishonoring the man.


Blessings to you through Christ,


Craig

Posted 3/12/2011 1:37 PM by craigwbooth - recommend - reply

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Dear agnophilo,


You wrote this to me, “Again you just twist these passages. You will never accept that they mean anything other than what you'd like them to mean. If there are two ways to interpret a passage and one is a problem for your faith, you automatically reject it in favor of the other one.”


Yet, I cannot help but chuckle since this describes you so perfectly. Perhaps it is you who are twisting the passages? Will you ever accept that they mean anything other than what you would like them to mean? If there are two ways to interpret a passage and one demonstrates that there is no contradiction in the Scriptures, why do you automatically reject in favor of the other?


Of course accepting or rejecting an interpretation should depend on far more than one’s personal preference or debating stance. Good hermeneutics practices have led me to accept many concepts from the Bible that I would have gladly rejected out of hand as they challenged and changed some of my dearly held beliefs. Yet, that is the purpose of the Scriptures, to challenge and change individuals for the sake of God’s glory.


Blessings to you through Christ,


Craig

Posted 3/12/2011 1:39 PM by craigwbooth - recommend - reply

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Dear cyberbear,


You wrote, “In a nutshell, any apparent contradiction in revealed scripture stems from either the verse being figurative, rather than literal, in meaning, or from the reader's interpretation diverging from the Messenger's intent.”


Assuming this is not sarcasm but a valid attempt to understand the natural use of human language in the Bible, I would love to address your statement. Your explanation is actually very close to one I would agree with, with a few clarifications.


A reason that so often you hear a Christian refer to a hard to understand statement in the Bible as an idiomatic expression is because idiomatic phrases most often give rise to the greatest number of questions.


In other words, if someone were to observe, “Why do IRS tax forms generate more questions of confusion in my office than does the latest episode of CSI?” the answer would be, “Because the tax laws are intrinsically more difficult to understand than is a television show.” Idioms, euphemisms, and the imagery of poetry will always be among the hardest language to understand and will always raise more questions of interpretation than do other phrases.


There is nothing wrong with asking why something is so oddly worded, especially if it is an idiom. What would a 1st Century Jew think you meant when you said that “The IRS drives me up the wall”? That particular phrase would naturally raise more questions than the statement, “The tax code is difficult to understand.”


It is faulty methodology to automatically assume the toughest language to understand in the Bible is always the spawn of an error or a contradiction. That kind of improper reasoning is why so many of these frivolous challenges make it onto alleged “lists of biblical contradictions.” It is also why so many of the answers are, “It is an idiom,” because they are so often just that.


Rarely do we think to read the biblical languages from the eyes of a 1st Century Jew. In our rich and opulent Western society we see the expression, “In my Father’s house are many dwellings” and assume there are many royal palaces in the Father’s house. A 1st Century Jew in Palestine would immediately and properly assume it meant there were many single-room apartments in the Father’s house.


We read that the 1st Century church had weekly love feasts during the Eucharist. In our contemporary mind’s eye we see this long table spread lavishly with food. We fail to realize that every person brought their own carry-in dinner to this “feast“; the rich brought much, but the poor often brought nothing and went hungry. The poor were often slaves, had no kitchen in their one-room efficiency apartments, and could neither prepare their own food nor could afford to purchase “fast food” on the way to the “feast.” They literally depended on the rich to share with them. When the rich quickly ate everything they brought themselves, the poor would show up and go hungry all night. We must really learn to read the Bible through 1st Century understandings.


We wrongly expect the four gospels to be written like and read like 21st Century news magazine articles, where every detail, no matter how arcane, is chronicled. But the gospels were written the way 1st Century writers crafted the Greek biographies of the day. Only important details were included. The biography was written not to tell all that a person had done, but to explain why the person was important enough to write about at all. Much of everything else was considered as too superfluous to include.


When something “does not make sense” in the New Testament, we should not immediately think, “Here is a contradiction,” but rather, “What do I not understand about 1st Century Greek that would make this read so oddly to me today?”


Blessings in Christ,


Craig

Posted 3/12/2011 2:42 PM by craigwbooth - recommend - reply

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@deniseinindy - 

Um, he didn't do a good job.

@cyberbear - 

I could say the same about hitler's mein kampf and that any problem you have with the morality of hitler is just you misunderstanding him. That is you being in rationalization-mode, this is not an objective viewpoint. You're refusing to admit that anything could be a contradiction before even hearing it.

@craigwbooth - 

Dear friend agnophilo,

I see you are concerned about accuracy regarding the English translation of Acts 1:18. Yet, oddly, you seem to have quoted the NIV which does not mirror the Greek original in this passage quite as consistently as do many other English translations. The NIV (and some inaccurate paraphrase renderings) add the idea that Judas died “there,” in the field.

The KJV and others mirror the same concept.

"I have looked up the original Greek text, and this idea of where Judas died is utterly absent in the original language. The fact that the NIV adds in concepts not present in the original Greek is why it is sometimes not permitted to be used in Christian seminary hermeneutics courses."

He died in the field of blood which he "acquired with the price of his wickedness" before he died. It's clear to any objective reader.

"Those English translations that are considered more faithful to the Greek read as follows:
KJV “Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.” (Acts 1:18)"
NASB “(Now this man acquired a field with the price of his wickedness, and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his intestines gushed out.” (Acts 1:18)
ASV “(Now this man obtained a field with the reward of his iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.” (Acts 1:18)
ESV “(Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.” (Acts 1:18)
Note: for those Christians who are NIV fans, in general I feel it is a fine and useful translation to read from, but for serious study I would recommend the NASB and, when convenient, also learning Koine Greek."

And refusing to acknowledge even the possibility that you could be wrong helps immeasurably as well I'm sure.

"It is curious that you, agnophilo, state that there are multiple “other accounts” about Judas returning the silver coins, beside Matthew 27:1-9, which are “riddled with contradictions.” Any Bible student will inform you that you are incorrect; there is only one account of Judas taking back the money to the sanctuary or his money buying a field (i.e. Matthew 27:1-9). As we already discussed Acts 1:18 is another reference to that event, but it does not recount the events of that night."

Yes, it does. Explicitly. And I was referring to multiple contradictions (which I had just listed), not additional references to his death. Which is apparent, since I go on to refer to only two versions.

"Rather Acts 1:18 uses similes, ironies, and euphemisms to describe Judas’ “wickedness” as the price paid (instead of silver) for “his” field which he never actually owned. It is reminiscent of saying, “Lincoln built his monument in D.C. out of the price of his own worth and integrity.” Lincoln never actually bought or owned the monument, but it was dedicated to him because of what he had done. It would be absurd to imply that the epitaph was intended to tell the literal story of how the monument was financially funded. It was just an epitaph, a poem honoring the man. In like manner, Acts 1:18 is Judas’ sad epitaph, though in this case it is a poem dishonoring the man."

So he purchased a bit of land with his infamy before he died? I'm sorry, but that is a huge stretch. You are just refusing to acknowledge even the possibility that the sensible interpretation is true. I don't even think you looked at the contradictions I posted in the other blog.
Posted 3/13/2011 12:16 PM by agnophilo Xanga True Member - recommend - reply

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@craigwbooth - 

You accuse me of automatically accepting apparent contradictions if they pose a problem for scripture when I researched and contradicted one of the ones you wrote this blog about in the original blog. I'm sorry, but "I know you are but what am I" is not a valid response here.

And your worldview may have some wiggle room, but you are certainly not willing to question the entire framework. Which is the actual reason you blew off my responses in the other blog. You had no answer to them that wouldn't pose a problem for your beliefs.
Posted 3/13/2011 12:21 PM by agnophilo Xanga True Member - recommend - reply

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@craigwbooth - 

And when something does make sense but contradicts something else the same rule applies. Put it on yourself and pretend you're just too much of an idiot to understand the "real" meaning.
Posted 3/13/2011 12:26 PM by agnophilo Xanga True Member - recommend - reply

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Dear agnophilo,


You wrote, “So he [Judas] purchased a bit of land with his infamy before he died?”


No, the text says that it was his wickedness that purchased both the land and his fate for him.


“I'm sorry, but that is a huge stretch. You are just refusing to acknowledge even the possibility that the sensible interpretation is true.”


Agnophilo, it is at this point I think you may be a tad insincere in your protestations. You said you knew the Bible well enough, so you know that 40% of it is pure poetry (chock full of similes, symbolic language, euphemisms, metaphors). Hebrew writers were more linguistically rich than are modern English authors. Why do you insist that Acts 1:18a has to be literal narrative instead of an epitaph? What linguistic markers are there in Acts 1:18a that leads you to think it is more intended as literal narrative than a poetic epitaph against the man?


Agnophilo, you also wrote, “I don't even think you looked at the contradictions I posted in the other blog.”


I have read everything you posted. If there is yet something specific you want me to address, just tell me.


Blessings through Christ,


Craig

Posted 3/13/2011 3:56 PM by craigwbooth - recommend - reply

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@craigwbooth - 


"No, the text says that it was his wickedness that purchased both the land and his fate for him."

No, you lunatic. YOU said that. The text doesn't say that unless you move several words around and add a few new ones.

"Agnophilo, it is at this point I think you may be a tad insincere in your protestations. You said you knew the Bible well enough, so you know that 40% of it is pure poetry (chock full of similes, symbolic language, euphemisms, metaphors). Hebrew writers were more linguistically rich than are modern English authors. Why do you insist that Acts 1:18a has to be literal narrative instead of an epitaph? What linguistic markers are there in Acts 1:18a that leads you to think it is more intended as literal narrative than a poetic epitaph against the man?"

Yes, the bible contains poetry and symbolism. But the point here is that you are hiding behind the concept of the metaphor to avoid ever accepting that anything in the bible contradicts anything else. You decide what is a metaphor and what isn't not based on literary qualities, but based on the desired end conclusion. Or would you ever interpret a metaphor as meaning something that contradicts something else? The passage explicitly says that he purchased the land, and with what money. I am perfectly willing to accept that a passage does not contradict another passage (as I have demonstrated), and you will never accept that one does, no matter how obviously it does.

"I have read everything you posted. If there is yet something specific you want me to address, just tell me."

Oh that's hilarious. Two of my responses in the old blog which you ignored are still waiting for acknowledgment.
Posted 3/13/2011 7:15 PM by agnophilo Xanga True Member - recommend - reply

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@craigwbooth - 

You don't appear to have even read anything I said.

Thanks for another in a long line of experiences beating my head against a wall talking to a religious person who isn't interested in listening, only in talking.
Posted 3/14/2011 12:55 PM by agnophilo Xanga True Member - recommend - reply

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Dear agnophilo,


It is true, I do embrace the poetry, symbolism, and metaphors that comprise so much of Scripture. To reject such language, interpreting every word in its "literal" meaning, is to miss what the original author was attempting to communicate.


Regarding Acts 1:18, there are numerous ways to read it and several linguistic issues to overcome if you want to demand it is a contradictory history narrative of Judas’ death (and field purchase) that competes with and denies Matthew 27:7.


“Now this man acquired a field with the price of his wickedness, and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his intestines gushed out. And it became known to all who were living in Jerusalem; so that in their own language that field was called Hakeldama, that is, Field of Blood.” (Acts 1:18-19)


Issues to Consider


1) If Acts 1:18a is literal and not metaphorical, where is the reference to silver coins? I am unaware of a Roman currency called “wickedness” which was used to pay for Judas’ field. Is part of 1:18a metaphorical? Which parts? How do you know?


2) If two friends go out for pizza, and one says, “Here is the money for the pizza, you order it while I go to the restroom,” then later as they finish the pizza the friend who was given the money says, “Here, you deserve the last piece because you bought the pizza,” is he being inaccurate? Whose pizza was it really, the one who provided the money or the one who did the physical act of purchasing? Is it wrong to say Judas bought the field because he provided the money even though it was the temple officials that made the transaction?


3) What made Judas fall? Why does not the account in Luke, if it intends to dispute the previously published account in Matthew, say why Judas fell? Note: In the Greek language an alternative translation of that phrase can read: “and swollen up he having become, he burst apart in his middle, and were poured out all the bowels of him” instead of saying he “fell and burst open.” Does that challenge the “contradiction” theory and bolster it as a complementary account?


4) Is the reference to a field in verse 19 a reference to: a) the field purchased with Judas’ money, or, b) the field in which he died, or, c) to both, or, d) the fields are the same field? How do you actually know? Does the text literally say?


5) Why would Luke, the author of Acts, glibly contradict Matthew 27 when he had that text in front of him already (Acts being a book written later than Matthew)? Was Luke stupid and did not know he was contradicting Matthew and destroying the Christian faith and the Christian gospel? Was Luke of such higher integrity than Matthew that he HAD to write the truth? And if Luke only wrote the truth because of his higher integrity, than why do you not believe everything else he writes about Jesus as also being true history?


6) Is there no possibility that Matthew 27 and Acts 1 are entirely complementary, and were designed to be complementary by Luke? If it is possible to read Matthew 27 and Acts 1 as complementary and not contradictory, then which reading is likely more in line with what Luke had intended to communicate all along?


In Christ,


Craig

Posted 3/14/2011 1:47 PM by craigwbooth - recommend - reply


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